Im pretty sure that was Mr Orr’s point, Ricochet. Change the law and let them do it again.

yep, great addendum… wish we had it here in FL. Spare the rod, spoil the child. Plain and simple. True then, true now.

It is legal for spanking, but only if the school has received WRITTEN permission from the parents- if your child is spanked and you have not signed a form stating that is your preferred method of punishment- sue the school-that is considered abuse.

Suspend them-don’t ticket them.

The schools ticket instead of suspend because they do not want to lose their daily head count dollar for the child.
Instead, the child is allowed to continue in the classroom putting the rest of the children in danger-
School administration ONLY cares about the dollar, not the safety of our children.

The problem is that, in most cases, it is the parents who need to be spanked. Hitting them in the pocket with a fine will not solve the problem, but it may help!

Dig a little deeper, Bob. That’s NOT what “spare the rod, spoil the child” means. Use your brain for a change people, not your hand.

I never done hear tell ’bout no coperal punishment. Is it worse than corporal? Actually, it is more than proper to strive for correct spelling and grammar if one wants one’s point to be taken seriously. These things used to be taught in public school.

All I can think of after reading this article is Home School. Take away their daily payment for your children and give them a better education as well.

Mac – You have assumed that “reefer01″ refers to marijuana. Not so! Case closed. I appreciate the humor though. Now. – Both “because” and “since” can be used to mean “for the reason that.” You want to be careful, though, that “since” can’t be misinterpreted with its “temporal” meaning (“since this morning”). In other words, if there’s a chance that “since” can be misunderstood, use “because.” The same is true of “as”: don’t use it to mean “because” where there is any chance it could be misunderstood in the temporal sense (“while”). Using “as” instead of “because” is apt to sound rather fussy and stilted anyway.

Authority: New York Public Library Writer’s Guide to Style and Usage HarperCollins: New York. 1994. p. 40. Cited with permission.

In the case of Pilot’s response to Mark, the word “as” could mean Mark should be using a spell checker WHILE he is not writing English. I didn’t say Pilot was necessarily WRONG…but that he might consider another word besides “as”. Thanks for the discourse.

Really? Look around you, the evidence is contrary to your statement. All those lofty suggestions from ‘expert’ researchers that we have embraced for the past 5 decades have failed miserably. Our society is full of materialistic narcissists who lack moral character. Like you, T…someone who blindly equates a misfortune in dental health with a lack of intelligence. Lowly traditional parenting techniques were doing a much better job of raising kids before the experts came along.

that sounds “insane” hehe

Just ticket them, like the article says,

JUST SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT IT, SPANKINGS HAVE MADE MANY A GREAT PERSON, OUT OF A SNOTTY NOSED KID THAT NEEDED A LITTLE STRAIGHTENING OUT.

Everyone I’ve ever hit would disagree with you.

AS a matter of fact, I was paddled on three different occasions in my twelve years of public school attendance. It got my attention every single time and caused me to straighten up and fly right. It left no emotional scars and no resentment. I knew I did wrong and learned I would be held accountable when I did wrong. It works.

“…basicly idots..” should be “…basically idiots”

“…spanki…” should be “…spank…”

They already tried that when school sent home laptops with spycams on them, remember?

I do “teach”. I am not referring to talking out of turn or testing the waters. I’m referring to students that cause real trouble. I am VERY professional and take offense to being called otherwise by a complete stranger.

John you said “Tickets wouldn’t need to be handed out if parents would do their job at home. When a teacher calls the parents at home, the parents do not take care of the problem. ”

John you said “I am VERY professional and take offense to being called otherwise by a complete stranger”

I am a parent ( and a complete stranger to you ) and I do care for my childrens education, you take offense for being called out on something by a complete stranger, but your comments are lumping all of us concerned parents into the same group as those parents who may not care about their childs education. You offend all of us caring parents! What Hypocrisy you have!!!

Ricochet,
Get a grip on your liberal mind if at all possible. John understands the problem and could “try” to educate you…. but you seem to be part of the problem.

Ricochet,
You might be educated, however you dont have a clue.
It is also human nature to learn from their mistakes….that includes parents. Letting a parent feel some of society’s pain because they choose not to address their kids’ issues is what the world needs more of Usually these “bad parents” react very well when you hit them in their pocket books. The teachers cant punish the kids, so what incentive do the kids have to stop if mom (or dad if they have one) wont?

One big problem is the PARENTS will not allow the teachers or the schools to handle the problem. Let the schools fire that rear-end ocassionally and that woud help.

Ricochet, you’re clueless. I’m sure you’re the type that deals with rebellious or misbehaving children by negotiating with them aren’t you. You’re right, it is human nature to push boundaries, but you apparently missed the life lesson that says we’re all responsible for our actions and thus have to deal with the consequences thereof. I have a real hard time believing that there exists any non-trivial number of children who are perfect little angels at home and little hellions at school. By and large the kids that consistently misbehave at school aren’t expected to do much better at home.

I have worked at an alternative school for students who have been removed from the normal campus for one reason or another. The tickets are an effort to draw the parents in to help solve the issues, and only done if absolutely necessary. Nobody wants to give a student’s parent a ticket. Persistent uncorrectable misbehavior at school does not typically coincide with angelic behavior at home. There are parents who refuse to “parent,” and perhaps need an incentive to help. The other students should not suffer needlessly because of a misbehaving student. And the reality is, if the situation is not corrected, with the help of the parent hopefully, the student will end up expelled or in juvenile detention.

Well you’ve had enough faux “righteous indignation” heaped upon you by folks that got the vapours over your comments… So I’ll not pile on.

However (and this is not an endorsement of any NEA position), you can’t hold teachers solely accountable for the success or failure of their students. It is parents who are, in the long run, who bear the shame, or the credit, for why little Johnny can’t read (or write, or speak properly, or conjugate verbs, or add, or subtract, or engage in basic reasoning…).

First, eliminate the “compulsory” aspect of public education. Some parents/children will swim to the bottom, regardless. We should not allow them to detract from the learning experience of others.

Second, if government MUST be involved in education (or retirement, or medical care, etc ad nauseum), and I’m not convinced it needs to be so… make County government the responsible organisation. That way, it is close, and accountable to the taxpayers who pay the bills.

We’ve seen over the last 100+ years that everything the government touches, turns to fecal waste. Yet there are those who want to give the government ever more power and responsibility.

It’s cultural suicide.

If John were teaching my kid, he’d been needing that Obamacare to have the boot removed from his back side. These teachers are nothing more than social leaches. They complain about money, class size, free time, benefits. They are the problem. When I was a kid, there were 40 kids in my class. I went to college prepared. I knew math, science, and english. Our HS was only 180 strong. If a little school in the middle of nowhere can prep kids for college with 40 per class, why are these liberal leech teachers complaining.

Right on Ricochet . . . ALOT of teachers act worse than the kids and actually do all they can to instigate and cause more problems for the kids. Yes, the school system is out of control – both with the kids and the adults!!!

“…then constantly complaining… ” , should be “…than constantly complaining…”
…your overworked … “, should be “…you’re overworked…”

I agree. This is a typical example of a black dad (thanks for at least being in the home) blaming everyone but himself for his kid’s lack of character. No one fabricated his son’s dilemma…he just refused to acknowledge it until the kid got in trouble. End of story.

Thanks, Bill, for saving me the time.

Uh… I think he meant that -after- the stint in juvy the son came back with that taint on him.

He did mean he changed AFTER Juvy? That’s what I understood.

To Bill M. and especially DI Ricardo, spoken like a true non-black dad, at least the kid in question is in the country legally and did not cross the border probably like mr ricardo, if you have never been a black dad, you cant say what’s typical of a black dad, spew your racist hate somewhere else it does not help the national conversation when that’s all you know and all you spew!

Bill M is obviously not father to a confident heterosexual adolescent male. If he were, he would know that teh difference between a leader among men and an aggressive criminal is primarily environment. This is why we need to purge principals like Rick Davis and I have personally dealt with, and why armchair pundits of mediocre at best intelligence and limited parental experience like Bill M need to limit their commentary to areas of their espertise.

It’s funny, Squonk32. I just assumed the dad was white. And, yes, he is likely in denial about what his son was up to. But there are school officials who overstep their bounds. For them, it’s the only bit of power they have ever had in their small lives, and they go out of their way to wield it.

As for the other comment – ANY parent who has the dedication to home school a child is a hero. Talking down to him because he mis-typed a word or two is simply ignorant. Whatever the son had done in school, I would be willing to bet that his situation improved after being with a parent during the day.

HI THERE “Uncle Tom”!
Stickin your nose up the ass of the white man, eh????

You are freakin disgusting.

Get your kids away from “conservative communists” LIKE THIS brainwashed “Uncle Tom”..

HOME SCHOOL THEM!!!!!!!!!

In the late 60’s I was an abused child at home by a Father that was himself an abused child in his youth. It was so bad for him that he left home and joined the Air Force at 16, in ’47 that was possible to do because the ability to verify was less of a possibility. I was also able to extricate myself by using the courts system. My Mother was also an abused spouse so she not only didn’t have an answer but didn’t even know the extent of abuse.

In the midst of this horror of a childhood we moved to the suburbs of Dallas, from an inner city school. At the time I had just entered Junior High and it was when in the middle of fall that the blacks came to the white schools. I had gotten onto the basketball team and I wasn’t very good at it. The blacks not liking to have to carry me on the team tried to make me quit and I just fought back and refused to leave of my own accord. I had this unreasonable idea that the coach was supposed to teach me how to overcome my deficit. When the blacks threatened to walk out if I didn’t leave he came to me and revealed the problem, but as an abused child I expected him to back me up and he did the opposite and put me off the team.

Because of integration we moved to Mesquite a white suburb. When I was enrolling the Principle saw my size at 6’4” and 250 pounds at 12 thought I would be a good applicant to his football team, and told me so. I reacted negatively, and told him no. He failed on many occasions to see the signs of child abuse in a child before his eyes. He and my Father had the same philosophic disease, which was they saw my size and imputed adulthood. I blame the Principle, George Childress to this day because he was an education professional and he not only failed to see the evidence of abuse but added his own. He was angry in the time of hippy rebellion at me for refusing his command to play football, and he acted out that anger for 3 years. He gave me licks nearly every day for any act he could find. Yes I acted out as any child abuse victim does and as time went on that acting out became more severe. The final straw happened one day when I was on the periphery of the school grounds smoking a cigarette and was seen by a coach. The coach knowing that He couldn’t catch me he sent the football team out to get me and they beat me for him. When we were all brought in for licks I refused to comply. My Father was called and I still refused to submit so I was expelled.

I made sure that no one every hit my children even me. To me the abuse stopped with me. My ex-wife’s husband began to abuse my son and it was hidden from me because she knew I would have killed him. The state removed my children and even the state hid the issue from me because they believed I would have become violent and it took me 6 years to get my children away from my ex-in-Laws. My Son is 31 years old and I still want to go kill that man, only now it is my children stopping me from action.

I don’t believe you because you misspelled a word also.

Hi, grammar nazi here! Noted four mispellings
in the latter half of your post. Props to your service to the children though..

I should have noted that this was typed from my iPhone, which would explain the typos. To the comment of me being an “Uncle Tom” Mr. Red Man, you need to wake up brother and consider having some basis for political discussion instead of childish “name calling”. Perhaps if you listen to rational philosophies on economic and social issues, you’d see that there are compelling cases to be made for various political views. To simply dismiss views contrary to your own through “name calling” gives evidence to your ability to engage in intelligent discussion and cheapens the opinions of those here for serious dialog.
As stated before, I am a 20 year veteran of a major police department in the DFW area and spent several years as a school officer. I have also wished that the police were not needed in Texas schools, however, we live in the real world and not the Utopian world in which several of you have assumed was the case. I have witnessed the over-use or police officers in the school environment and also principals who deal skillfully with unruly students. Though there are exceptions to the rule, the predominant problem in our schools is the parents. There’s a saying “The apple don’t fall far from the tree.” In most in-depth investigations of student misconduct, we often found that the parent was not in control of their child in most cases, and in others the parent was in denial, though all of the signs were there. As parents, we all want to believe the best in our own kids. We want to dismiss those “signs” as insignificant. But, when these signs are ignored and not addresses or confronted, the end is inevitable. Officers are having to issue too many ticketed because we have a legal system that sustains itself by lawsuits; lawsuits if anyone spanks my child and lawsuits for not protecting my child through school and legal action. When spanking waned, lawsuits waxed, and school violence increased this left the principals in a position of having to use the police to carry out some of the discipline within their schools. To the notion of suspension as a form of punishment, some of the students welcome this as an opportunity to burglarize your home and the police are powerless to arrest or stop a kid that has been suspended which is contrary to popular belief. Again, I am a police officer and I did work in the school system for 12 years. I speak from a position of knowledge about the legal system and school discipline and experience. Though I feel that this ticketing is sometimes excessive, until there is a revamping of school discipline, it is a necessary evil.

Public schools are pathetic? I guess that means you went to a private school, so that makes you better! Yeah, right.

Chris R – I assume you meant “where a ticket in theory is valid”. Were does not fit in that sentence. Minor mistake, but if I were writing the message you were writing, I would check the spelling. Those living in glass houses should not throw stones.

When writing quickly on an internet blog, it is poor etiquette to assume that his grammar and spelling is indicative of his ability to teach. There are thousands of tools from which the home schooling parent can use to help them in that area. I am a home schooling father, and my spelling is less than desirable. So I use books to help with the teaching, and my daughter knows how to find and use a dictionary for spelling words(she is only 7).
Teaching is an ability that transcends one or two pieces of the spectrum of learning. Especially seeing your spelling errors and grammar errors as well.
When one goes pointing fingers there are usually three pointing back at themselves.
For example: Last I knew, there is no law. Grammatically incorrect. The verbs should be in either present or past tense, not both. So it should be Last I know of, there is no law…
And 2) even if there is a law that was violated to were a ticket
I can only assume you meant: even if there is a law that was violated to warrant(spelling error) a ticket in theory, is valid(separate thought with is opinion thus needs to be set aside from the main sentence), you can aruge that a six year old might (spelling error for my) not have (either a or the) theory(not sure that this is the proper word, I would use awareness) to fully understand the infraction… and its (not it’s that is only for it is).

Nick–>You are wrong. As a retired police officer and currently a college instructor you need to only read the miranda warning “when you are asking guilt seeking questions.” I can see you speed, steal, commit any crime, or have someone file a complaint against you and I dont have to read miranda to you.

I can interview you and tell you “I would like to ask you some question and you are not under arrest and are free to go.” When you tell me your side of the story and tell me you did do the crime, I can use the statement against you.

Early intervention into children misbehavior / crimes results in less children progressing into the juvenile justice system. Meaning they willl be less likely to become a problem / criminal. Please do the research and you will see this is correct.

You only need to Mirandize someone if you are asking them questions pertaining to their guilt AND they are in the custody of law enforcement. That doesn’t mean arrested, it could be detained, or even just cornered by a bunch of cops to where the suspect feels they can’t leave. Legally, it is called custodian interrogation.

beegee you are sick. seek counseling. you are a terrible parent.

Bee gee, don’t listen to Joe. Sometimes a swat on the rear, not a beating is far more effective than a “time out”. Just as prison time is warranted for most infractions, when it ceases to work you end up with either a con for life, or a death sentence. Better to give a bop on the butt to teach and correct than allow the behavior to go unmodified if the past multiple time outs don’t work.

If you hit your children you make a statement about yourself. Only weak men hit children. There is no good excuse to beat on a little kid. You people know this deep down somewhere–and that is why you are so adamant about defending your reprehensible behavior. Your children will not forget that you hit them when they were too small to defend themselves. Shame on you.

Adults hit children because they CAN. Because if you hit anyone else they would retaliate–either by hitting you back or having you arrested. I am sure you get just as frustrated when dealing with other people in your lives as you do with your children. You don’t hit other adults because it’s ILLEGAL. And you don’t hit other people’s kids because that’s illegal too! You are forced by the rules of society to find a way to get along with other adults and other peoples’ children. You hit your own children because it’s the easy way out. Nothing forces you to respect your children. Take the time to be a good example to your kids. Take a parenting class, get some anger management counseling, get some sleep.

Hey Joe, I suppose you also think that Obama is doing a great job making life sooo much better for our children and their children too huh??? If you were in any position being around kids these days you would see a generation of kids who are abusive, vindictive and totally disrespectful towards authority. Do ya think that happened as a natural progression??? No!!! It happened because kids need direction! Kids need parameters!!! Kids need to be held accountable when they stray from those parameters which is where discipline comes in. Discipline “CAN” be discussion or counselling. But for some, discipline only works via physical discomfort….(NOT ABUSE). I thank GOD that I had a parent figure who spanked me when I needed it and to this day (half a century later) still show respect to people younger and older. Society has started down a swirling toilet bowl in making people think they can’t raise their kids with respect.

I despair that people like Joe are in charge of the education of my children. I lament the “philosophy” of his ilk has become persuasive in our society and hastened its decay.

Joe obviously has no children

Nor all kids respond to “time outs”. Some kids are quite content alone in a corner with their imagination. With those kids, a time out accomplishes nothing but giving them some enjoyable alone time.

You have to know your kid. Some kids respond well to time outs, some respond well to spankings, but there is not a single way to raise your kid that is right for everyone.

when you conflate violence with love you program your daughters to accept abuse, and you sentence your sons to believe that violence is ALWAYS a good way to solves problems. it’s sick.

And mind you, if one (or both) of the kids is a bully and is continuously fighting and parental contact has failed to change this behavior, then by all means, make an official arrest.

What the hell are we trying to do…see how many criminals we can manufacture?

I am glad that my grandchildren do not live in Dallas. We all moved to Collin County and find it a much more civilized place to be. This is just outrageous.

re: “The money isn’t coming out of his pocket”

I think the point of this is to get the parent to discipline their child. Some parents only get the message if it costs them in time and money.

re: “It is the job of the teacher to appropriately handle misbehaving children, not the police”.

This only works if teachers are given the authority to actually discipline their students. Most students want to learn and to get along with their teachers – however, there are always several in the class that do not give a rip about the teacher, their class, their self-respect, nor anything else. They know that you cannot touch them, you cannot permanently remove them from the class without going through weeks, if not months of “testin”, paperwork and followthrough – in the meantime the kid stays in the class and constantly disrupts everyone else’s kids’ education.

Many kids today have absolutely no respect for you and will say anything and everything to you – daring you to do something about it. Finally, after all the legal steps have been taken – often the parent withdraws the kid and merely puts them into some other unsuspecting school and process repeats itself.

Tickets to 6 year olds? If it works and it saves that kid from bigger and greater problems down the road, then I don’t see the problem. 4000 tickest over five years in a major metropolitan school district? That only comes to 800 tickets per year out of 160 elementary schools – which comes to 5 tickets per school.

I think it teaches him not to be respectful of the law. Possibly, a behavior that is egregious enough to deserve a ticket will be equated with other childhood “crimes” like getting gum in his hair, or missing the bus………. We reserve adult punishment for adults because most adults are mature enough to understand the difference between thoughtless/stupid behavior and criminal behavior.

Traditional discipline does not work because school districts have basically outlawed any of their employees from putting a hand on an out of control student. (law suit related) Instead most schools have gone to having police officers in their employment or contracted to deal with those issues that teachers/administrators dealt with in the distant past. The time it takes when a kid is rebelling to get the kid removed from the class so teaching can continue can vary between 3 minutes to 30 minutes (depending on how defiant the kid chooses to be). In a lot of those cases, it does fall on the parents who have failed to teach their kids to be respectful towards authority and those same parents want to blame schools, other kids …..or even law enforcement for the problems their kids are causing!

re: “Take things away… Recess, eat lunch in the classroom, field trips, etc. I’m sure things will turn around pretty quick.”

I agree that these things would help, but it is against the law in most school districts to restrict kids from all of the things you mentioned above – it is lawsuits by parents against school districts for practicing the very things you suggest that intimidate principals and school districts into allowing disruptive kids do whatever they want. If you merely grab a kid by the arm – you can be in jail that night – I’m not kidding you. It takes parents who want their kids to learn to give a strong, clear message to state and local judges that they want schools and teachers to be allowed the authority to remove consistently disruptive students from classrooms. That authority includes giving teachers the power to withhold things like recess, field trips, etc. Right now, many, many states do not allow teachers and principals to have that authority.

Capitalizations are only supposed to appear in the first letter of the first word and all nouns after that, Mr. grammar nazi.

You are petty Brian. Btw: What is “wait a TIC”?

It’s sad Brian called you a moron; otherwise I agree with his statement. Every time my son brings papers home from school I am reminded how poorly educated the teachers are. I don’t mean sometimes, I mean every time – from teachers and principals.

He brings home papers addressed to parents, which refer to “your child.” So far, so good. Then every single time, apparently in an effort not to overuse the phrase, the child is referred to as “they” or “them”. It appears that these so-called educators do not know that, if a person’s gender is unknown, the English language defaults to the masculine pronoun. If trying to be politically correct, it will default to the feminine, but never does it default to the plural form. Never.

Even your response has errors. You are a moron.

Oviously you never worked in a “hood” school. Black teachers didn’t like it there. They told me they were teachers, not disciplinarians. There were kids there that had their Parole Officers come visit once a week. By the way what makes everyone who is not a teacher think teachers should be the super disciplinarians in classrooms, why do teachers have to work that hard? Where is the support for the rest of the students who do listen and respect the teacher. Teachers work hard enough making sure students get the work done that is in their curriculum, work that is mandated by the district level,state level, federal level, they listen to kids problems, and hope that their students hit all the reading and math levels, Once you put all the behavior drama from these kids in the mix, really teachers don’t get paid enough for what they have to do. Please don’t go boo hoo either to me. Teachers want to make a difference in the education of peoples lives. Teachers are not perfect people, we are suppose to train students to learn the basics of reading and math, then it is up to the students as they become adults to know what to do with those basics in society. If students can’t get that in a calm and safe enviroment, then the whole school has failed. Oh I forgot schools are failing in that respect, that’s why we are not number one in the world against other students. The behavior our students get away with in America is what is holding us back, plain and simple.